Monday 25th of November 2024

grumpy old men .....

grumpy old men .....

Pope, Saudi King hold historic meeting 

Pope Benedict and Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah held a historic meeting and discussed the situation of minority Christians in the Islamic country where the Vatican wants them to have more freedom. 

At the first meeting between a Pope and a Saudi monarch, the two also discussed the need for greater collaboration between Christians, Muslims and Jews and prospects for a Middle East peace. 

They spoke for about 30 minutes in the Pontiff's private study with the help of interpreters in what both the Vatican and reporters described as a cordial atmosphere. 

A Vatican statement said "the presence and hard work of Christians [in Saudi Arabia] was discussed" - seen as a clear reference to the Vatican's concern over the Christian minority. 

Vatican sources said before the meeting that they expected the Pope to raise his concern over the situation of Catholics and other Christians in Saudi Arabia. 

The Vatican wants greater rights for the 1 million Catholics who live in Saudi Arabia, most of them migrant workers who are not allowed to practice their religion in public. 

They are only allowed to worship in private places, usually homes, and cannot wear signs of their faith in public. 

King Abdullah, custodian of Islam's holiest sites in the cities of Mecca and Medina, wore his traditional white robes. 

The Vatican said other topics discussed included inter-cultural and inter-religious dialogue and "collaboration among Christians, Muslims and Jews for the promotion of peace, justice and spiritual and moral values, especially those which support the family". 

The Pope and the king also discussed the Middle East, particularly the need to find "a just solution to the conflicts that afflict the region, in particular the Israeli-Palestinian [conflict]". 

Pope, Saudi King Hold Historic Meeting

kiddies in the sand box...

Australian philosopher Raimond Gaita will give the inaugural Common Good Lecture this week at the State Library of NSW - on Multiculturalism and the War on Terror. He speaks to Stephen Crittenden about sharia, Aboriginal tribal law, and what he calls "practical multiculturalism". Also- a response by former Australian diplomat Bruce Haigh to last week's item about Benazir Bhutto's posthumously published book.

...

Bruce Haigh: Yes, quite. I mean this was an insight into American thinking on Islam and it was frightening. It's a bit like reading an AFP dossier. I mean this is nonsense thinking and yet it is official thinking, and I would have turned it around.

Stephen Crittenden: What, you think the AFP's got a frightening vision as well, do you?

Bruce Haigh: Yes, quite, they do. Very much so. I mean this is the immaturity that we're faced with within our own major organisation, the AFP. But also in other intelligence organizations, and having been close to them over the years, yes, the mentality that's brought to bear is a kind of subdued hysteria.

....

Stephen Crittenden: The central argument in her book is that Islamic extremism thrives under dictatorship. I made the point in the interview last week that extremist Islam thrived under her democratically elected government.

Bruce Haigh: Yes, quite. This is what I'd really like to see unraveled. And what we saw in that particular book was official American thinking. I mean there's an organisation there called Freedom House (I think it is) that's quoted in that book, and you go onto the website and you look at the countries; they've graded the world according to whether they're fully democratic and free or whether they're not. Can you believe that West Papua is fully free and democratic? According to Freedom House. Because they've decided that Indonesia for whatever reason, is fully democratic and therefore any territory within Indonesia is fully democratic. So this is the sort of lack of subtlety, the nonsense, the lack of rigour, and you said that Seigel had said that Benazir had written the book and then he looked at it and altered a few things. I would say it was completely the other way around, and it was written in America, and she looked at it and changed it. Because every now and again I see her voice coming through, but most of the time I don't recognise the voice that's in that book. Except for that section, the chapter on Pakistan which has been more or less lifted out of her earlier book.

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Gus: cartoon at top is more or less accurate at time of printing... Meaning there are problems of communication between religions especially on certain levels of "tolerance"... the word is ugly, but the extended meaning should allow a bit more flexibility of behaviour, especially in the acceptance of women as fully fledged equals and in the acceptance of the value of other religion and of no religion — should one chose so. Few religions do allow this to be. What matters is that we do not harm any one else in our choices or actions, under any banner for god or country.

On the subject of women, sure some religions claim "respect" and all sorts of distorted bizoids but the end result is a latent push to patronise or to dominate the "weaker" sex. The Taliban and other such make no bone about giving nothing much to women except make them hide their face and give then a monkey's education beyond being brainwashed by the Koran's exclusive source of understanding of life...

In men and women, any singular source of "knowledge" (unscientific religious garb) has the potential to create the same fanatics we saw during the decimation of the Cathares (religious body that allowed full equality of men and women around the 10th century in Europe) and during the Inquisition, in which heretics were tortured and killed in sadistically organised acts by priests supposed to uphold the sanctity of life... Such stupidity, still is prevalent with the Bin Laden of this planet who get annoyed about the pressures put upon them by the other side's stupidity and intransigence or lies. It eventually grows into a fierce resentment that nothing can defuse, especially nothing such as more violence under the banner of an oil tainted crusading president.

Be religious as much as you wish — as long as it is a personal non violent expression of one's beliefs and not the expression of a controlling intransigent culture. 

forgiveness oblige

Indonesia regrets E Timor wrongs

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has expressed "remorse" for wrongs committed during East Timor's vote for independence in 1999.

He made the statement as he received the final report of their two countries' Truth and Friendship Commission in the resort of Bali.

The report details systematic crimes against humanity - and lays much of the blame at the door of Indonesia's army.

But the leaders of both countries say they are interested in moving on.

About 1,000 people are believed to have been murdered, and many others tortured, raped and displaced during 1999.

Neither country has expressed interest in prosecuting individuals on the basis of the report - though correspondents say it could strengthen such demands from campaigners.

The commission was boycotted by the United Nations, which has already blamed Indonesia and demanded that those responsible face justice.

the thin edge of the wedge...

Muslim leader wants elements of sharia in Australia PAUL BIBBY March 8, 2010

ELEMENTS of Islamic law - the sharia - should be legally recognised in Australia so that Muslims can live according their faith, a prominent Muslim leader says.

Addressing an open day at Lakemba Mosque on Saturday, the president of the Australian Islamic Mission, Zachariah Matthews, said parts of sharia could be recognised as a secondary legal system so that Muslims were not forced to act contrary to their beliefs. ''Sharia law could function as a parallel system in the same way that some traditional Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander law was recognised in the Northern Territory,'' Dr Matthews told the Herald after the session.

''I don't think we are so unsophisticated that we cannot consider a multilayered legal system as long as it doesn't conflict with the existing civil system.''

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Gus says and emphatic: "No way José". See toon at top.