Friday 22nd of November 2024

do they no or even care what then

After listening to the 17 dollars handed down by the wages commission today I am wondering if this may be the last held. I did hear at one stage that Mr Senator elect  Barnaby Joyce is not happy. Could some one elighten us if this is the case?

Also do the workers know or even care, why is Australia in a state of intertia? When will they wake up? When everything is gone that they take for granted? No holiday loading, used mainly for paying bills in the real world, penalty rates factored in to most famillies budgets. Gone.

Also are we talking to the converted on this site is there any one out there who really cares about our core values?  And again i ask the question about the polls re Mr. Beazley wanting more for the low paid in tax releif .

I dont think  people listen they are so busy, perhaps they think that the Labor party just don't want to pass the bill. I wonder because why would you vote down some one who is trying to help you. I cannot work people out any more. In fact I think it is time to give up and stick to my sewing.

Nearly given up.....

Each time I turn on the media I hear the bell which tolls the death of our country and democracy!  It all started (in my mind at least) when Bronwyn Bishop gave her "Maiden" speech in parliament and brayed on, in her chilling echo of Ayn Rand, on about "individualism" vs "collectivism". I went cold and realised that this was the death of our community and the beginning of the walk down the American road towards consumption or die. All else would be "un-Australian" - since it threatened the head-long race towards the God-given right to spend, consume and "woe betide anyone else who gets in my way".

I used to be a passionate "conservationist" until I realised that the large, global, economic-rationalist, forces have largely f__ked the planet, and its ability to recover. (The ecosystem is largely a closed one).

I used to care about my neighbours until I realised all they care about is themselves and how they can have/get/consume more than me.

I used to care about Australia unitl I realised that it has been socially engineered by the right wing neo-cons and their mates in Washington, and that we don't do any rational, independent thinking anymore.

I used to care about the future until I realised we really don't have one. .... At least I'll be dead in about 35 years and won't have to witness the sad state we will have created; in what was once a kind, caring, and inclusive society. Now, it seems that the best you can look forward to is just having enough clean water to drink; having clean air to breathe; enough non-toxic, non-GM food to eat and to simply pay your rent/mortgage and educate your kids and yourself (although the economic rationailsts seem to have screwed the education system as well, in the name of competition).

I can only sit back and watch it all fall apart...

(However, I'm still willing to listen to some positive people!)

Hi Francis.

Dont give up on the people around you. It is our duty to remind them of the country that was.

Well Said Pegasus

Hi Frances, I agree so much with what you're saying and see the same things you see, but I still have ever such a tiny hope that maybe one day the tide will turn.  There's great value in Pegasus' words of wisdom, I'm taking some heart in them... we all need to hang in there and just keep trying.

Hey Gus, any chance of a cartoon that some how encompasses some of what Pegasus is saying?  I'd love one I could print off and put up on my wall... a sort of Your Democracy 'official spirit lifter'...

Conversions already done

Hey Nolly,

Yes, we are pretty much all of the same view here. We are all anti Howard and know we are right. Most also don't like Labor but they are the only alternative currently and I'm afraid Mr B is running dead, to use a horse racing phrase.

Much of what is written here seems to be us just telling each other what we already think, and accept as the truth, facts etc, and may seem pointless. But if you watch the "Who's online" item at the left of screen you will usually see more "guests" than members. Currently there are two members and 6 guests. So 6 unconverted, or people thinking about joining, or laughing at what is written. Doesn't matter, they are reading.

I actually saw 190 guests listed last night but I think the system had a bit of a glitch and was presenting the wrong time etc. But there have been more than 10 often and they are the people who we would like to get involved here. We need their support, their opinions, their momentum to get the messages through to the people currently enjoying good conditions of service. Those conditions are about to disappear and in fact they already have for many.

There are over 300 members to my knowledge (outdated) but no more than about twenty actually post from what I've seen. They should all join in as we need their words, now.

To me Howard has been hiding the poverty by adding all the Centrelink benefits such as Parenting Payment, single mother benefit and all the rest. The Family Tax Benefit is the worst as it admits that any couple on less than $70,000 needs government benefit support. And that is correct.

What most people don't realise is once conditions of service go out the window they will be totally reliant on Howard's handouts and thus will always vote for him. Without those benefits they would not survive. And I'm not talking about a minority. It is by far the majority of Australian workers and families that receive these government benefits. I do and I accept them as I need them. But I'd prefer not to as it's obvious that route has a sudden and steep end to it. An end where many will lose their over mortgaged homes, jobs and Centrelink won't have the money to pay everybody.

There you go, doom and gloom, Pegasus style.

That's just how I see Howard's policies Nolly. It's not what I believe in or want and I will fight both sets of politicians to change from  where we are now to a society where we are all treated fairly. I hope for that and don't despair as I know that " People Power " , which is what this site is about, will kick in. Hopefully we don't have to wait until the level the Ukraine did but even they stood up and said " Bugger off " in the end.

So will Australians.

As an aside on Beazley's tax cut stand. I don't believe for a minute that Labor actually cares about the lower paid workers. It's simply their last use of the little power they have for a few more weeks. All he has done is provide an easy target for Abbott and Costelloes, the clowns.

Nice to see you posting Nolly and keep going, please.

Best.

do they really care

I personally like  Mr Beazley and think him a very decent and caring person. 

I actually had the  preveledge to meet Mr Beazley some years ago in canbera. 

I truly beleive Mr. Beazley  would  make a great Prime Minister. I heard a very in-depth interview with him talking about his family life and childhood. 

I think he does care about the lower end of the scale. In fact Ii am sure he does.

I think he his a lovely fellow. With a big heart.

Nolly and Frances

Hey Nolly and Frances,

Nolly, I'm sure Mr B is a lovely man. He comes over as a gentle and knowledgable person and he has the background to be a good PM. I don't think though that he has the support needed within the ALP. They seem determined to self destruct regardless of who is leader and we have seen that over the last few years. There are people like Swan and Rudd who see themselves as leader and won't stop until the ALP has no seats or they do lead whatever is left.

I too would prefer the tax cuts were voted down and all the money put into Health, or Education. But the reality is that Kim is an easy target for Howard and Costello as he is too gentle and prone to ridicule. You only have to go back to the Tampa election which was all over until Howard raised the race card via the Tampa. At that time the ALP, with Kim as leader, folded and lost. He gave up the principles that most here hold on to and he did that because he and the ALP thought Howard was on a winner. He was but I will never support fear and Kim should have shouted himself hoarse during that period getting the message through. But he didn't. He shut up and hid in the corner and is still there.

No comments on him personally as I think you are right. Just not realistically going to be there come election time (again) as Howard would beat him.

I would love a Labor government at Fed level but only to put an end to what we have. What we have now is dangerous and is sacrificing everything we stood for. Steamrolling in a few short weeks too.

For Frances. you're right, right, right about all you say. All those things have happened and I don't understand what "those" people want. I guess money and total power which would just prove what they are really wouldn't it?

But I notice you wrote "almost" about giving up. So there's hope and where there's hope there's life.

You know yourself that most people are actually good inside. There are the real bastards of course but mostly they run in packs as they are cowards as individuals.

Most of us want a peaceful, comfortable life with challenging and satisfying work and home lives. Not much really but that seems out of the question most days doesn't it? I know I've opened my eyes many mornings, heard the radio or just thought about life. Then closed my eyes and rolled over again. Many a day.

And why not, some days it's just not worth competing. Particularly when the competition has no end and no prize.

So we need to look for other ways of facing what is happening, dealing with it and finding kindred souls to oppose what we don't want or need in our country, in our lives.

Just words Frances, but with feeling. And passion. You have it too otherwise you wouldn't be here, wouldn't have posted and would have rolled over this morning.

I say well done Frances, just say how it looks and feels to you as you'll find it looks much the same to most people. They just mainly ignore it and vote for tax cuts and benefits rather than improved health and education systems.

I reckon what we need to do here is actually list what we don't like. We think we all agree but there is so much that I don't like and you have mentioned a few issues. Maybe if we all jump in and just say what we don't like we can see some way of dealing with it.

For instance, I hate mobile phone users who take calls in public. I want to take the phone and jam it down their throats. But that might be less than subtle so there needs to be a better way. I saw a TV show called "Grumpy Old Men" on the ABC (not the footy version on Fox (shudder)) where one of the grumpy old men had the same issue about public mobile users on public transport in London. He too wanted to shove the phone somewhere but suspected that might not achieve what he wanted. SO he decided that any time someone had a mobile conversation in public within his hearing range that he would start singing. Loudly. And preferably something annoying. See what I mean?

What do you reckon? What really gets to you?

Very best.

You are right

You are right Pegasus. Let's go back to when President Bush was in Australia.

The only person who should replace John Howard is the man who stood up to John Howard on President Bush . . . Bob Brown should be leader of the Australian Labor Party . . . but the Labor Party are not Green enough.

They should be green but they aren't now that Greenhouse gasses have put us into drought and water and finding water will be the greatest problem Australia is to face. Labor is too weak.

Prime Minister Bob Brown

Yeah... I agree... This is the little piss-take I wrote, mimicking the news paper articles when the whole of the kerfuffle was in full swing... Australian Liberal John Howard's invitation to US President George W Bush's to speak in parliament was an embarrassment for Australia, Prime Minister Bob Brown said today. He said he had warned Mr Bush to expect some sort of honor and the US president was prepared. John Howard stood up and applauded the president's address yesterday. Speaker Neil Andrew ordered him to leave the chamber and when he refused to go, instructed the serjeant at arms to take him away. John Howard remained in the chamber. "I expected him to do it and I warned the president that it could happen, something like this could happen, and he was pretty well prepared for it," Mr Brown told the John Laws radio show. "But I suppose it's something of an embarrassment to the country when a non-welcomed guest is applauded like that. "But on the other hand, we are a democracy, John Howard did it quite deliberately. "It was a politically contrived stunt." Mr Brown said there was a section of the Australian population that would approve of what John Howard did during the joint sitting of parliament. "The rest of us would think it was totally inappropriate," he said. "But he's really only interested in servicing his niche in the Australian political market and that is what he did yesterday. "Any suggestion that it was a spontaneous expression of his genuine approval, is rubbish." Prime Minister Brown said John Howard was accountable to Australian voters and in the end they would make a judgement about his conduct. "Most of us in the parliament, even those who strongly approve of President Bush's policies on the Liberal side, and there were plenty of them, would have regarded what he did as inappropriate," he said. Fellow Liberal Senator Lightfoot was also ordered to leave the chamber after applauding Mr Bush's speech yesterday but he too remained in his seat.

does any one really care.

We should all be standing up and be strong  for Kim he is a good honest man. Sending positive fibes is what he needs.

And have any of you thought about praying for this country and to bring back the goodness we used to have? I think the new term 'afluenza' is spot on.

Watch Sunday Sunrise so you can see what I am talking about. ABC radio has also done a good deal on it.

This is the last thing I want to say on this matter. Kim is a good person and I also do not see any self-destructive people in the ALP as at least they speak out and are not afraid to do so.  So think about a few prayers to give them all more courage. And also Mr Georgiou today and his other brave followers.

I lead a very busy life so won't be back for a while. I suppose some will say great. Any way as you work in your garden or what ever you, do pray for this country and the way we were. It works.

Hamish: Thanks Nolly. Hope to see you back soon. 

Nolly and Cloud, don't go....

Nolly and Cloud don't go!

We all feel like we can't turn the tide at times Nolly but we have no other choice but to try.

Cloud's post filled me with sadness because I agree with most of what she said. 

But it also left me feeling a sense of elation.  An elation born of knowing that there are good people out there who feel the same fears as I do and share the same hopes for a better future.

Nolly and Cloud this site (this country!) needs people like you.  So please continue to post, to hope and to dream.

Democracy requires active participation

Dear Nolly,

Dont despair, there are hundreds of thousands of people just like you out there who are very concerned about the future for both themselves and their children.

In the next few weeks the union movement will be starting a big campaign to tell workers how these things will affect them, and try to cut through some of the governments rhetoric.

Yes is it bad, very bad for the average worker and particularly bad for those whos workplaces are less than 100, which is the majority. (Drive down any main street in your town and city and play spot the workplace with unfair dismissal rights, only the big corporations or government departments will be left with rights)

BUT now is not the time to assume the foetal position in the corner of your bedroom. Be inspired by the many  who have stood up against the mighty to assert their human rights from Nelson Mandela, Ghandi and Martin Luther King to the peoples of East Timor, Venezuala, Chile and many more.

There was no difference between them and us, they were scared, disenfranchised, oppressed, faced worse than us in many respects but they kept going, and so will we. 

If you want to get active, come to one of the many rallies and public meetings being organised in your area, go to the ACTU Website www.actu.asn.au for info on what you can do.

I am proposing that all who can organise delegations to their local MP to discuss the issue. I am in Dickson so any who are keen to get together with me to take on the Minister for Workplace Participation (hah) please let me know.

We must be prepared to dig in for a long campaign, just like the refugee, mandatory detention campaign, but we can and will win, because the alternative is handing our children the worst working conditions in the OECD (thats official, even worse than the US under the proposed legislation)

in unity,

Maggie

do they really care?

Thanks Maggie,  I have just learned that I am going to be come a grandmother, our first, so that makes these issues even more important. After all our children are so busy working and they do work hard, so it is up to our generation, to carry the torch for them, and leave Australia intact as our fathers before us wanted.

Come on  you grandparents out there! Stand up and be counted for the next generation so they will say what a fantasic country our parents have bought us in to.  No just in the industrial area but every where.  The environment and global warming also.